EP 266: When Things Are Genuinely Impossible: One Dad’s Story

A dad - who is also a former foster youth and the director of non-profit supporting foster and adoptive families - shares an honest and tender conversation about what it's actually like to parent kids with big, baffling behaviors when life is also impossibly hard. He shares the staggering losses his family has carried over the past few years, how he found The Baffling Behavior Show, Raising Kids with Big, Baffling Behaviors, and The Club…and what has genuinely helped him keep going. This one is for every parent who has felt utterly alone in this journey- AND for every professional who needs a reminder of what the real work actually is.

In this episode you'll learn:

• Why being seen by people who truly get it matters more than any tool or strategy
• How learning to receive and offer presence (not just advice) changes the way you show up everywhere- with your kids, at work, and even in a Whataburger drive-through
• What it looks like to hold hope and honesty at the same time- staying grounded in how hard things really are without sliding into toxic positivity or despair

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Join us now and you can come live to the Parenting with your OWN History of Trauma or Vulnerable Nervous System Masterclass AND the workshop on Mapping Your Child's Nervous System. 

We can't wait to meet you! RobynGobbel.com/TheClub

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The Baffling Behavior Training Institute's Immersion Program for Professionals is NOW accepting applications for our 2027 cohorts. You MUST be on the waiting list to be eligible to apply so head to RobynGobbel.com/Immersion and put your name on the waiting list!

Let's hang out this summer at two different trainings for professionals!

Therapy with Kids with Big, Baffling Behaviors- June 1 & 2 in Syracuse, NY RobynGobbel.com/NY

Presence in Practice- July 15, 16, & 17 in Rockford, MI (outside Grand Rapids) RobynGobbel.com/Michigan2026

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Grab a copy of USA Today Best Selling book Raising Kids with Big, Baffling Behaviors robyngobbel.com/book

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Over on my website you can find:
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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

So when your kids' behavior is baffling and yours is too, sometimes, yeah. I know. Let's take a break from all the baboozle. You're on the baffling behavior. Welcome or welcome back, folks, to another episode of the baffling behavior show. It's me, your host, Robin Gobel. And y'all, today I am so delighted to introduce you to a very special guest. I had the opportunity to interview a dad of children with big baffling behaviors. This dad is in the club and was eager to connect with me on the podcast and share his story with y'all. We don't get to hear from folks in the dad role very often. So this is so special. This dad is parenting some kids with some pretty intense behavioral needs. The family has had really an intense experience in general, but in particular, a lot has happened that's been extremely hard for them in the last year or so. And we've supported this dad through in the club through their journey. And I've been so inspired by his ability to be extremely honest about how hard things are and still stay grounded and still hold on to hope and still occasionally stay regulated. He's been able to do both, be honest about how unbelievably hard things are and how his family needs more support. And also stay connected to his kid's humanity, his the rest of his family's humanity and needs, and even hope, as well as awareness of the things in their life that aren't really hard and really terrible. This is such a unique ability to be honest about both, right? Without leaning into disconnection or dissociation or toxic positivity, which would absolutely be coping skills that would make perfect sense here. And being able to keep a foot in both truths, things are really, really, really hard. And I can still find a way to be okay. It's really remarkable. There is a brief moment in the middle of the episode where we had a little trouble with the audio, and the audio gets kind of sped up and then slowed down. So it takes just a moment. Don't think anything's wrong with your device. We'll get past that part very, very quickly, really in just moments. All right, y'all. Here you go. Everybody, I'm so excited to give you the opportunity to listen in on another conversation, this time with a dad. Uh, we don't get a lot of opportunities to hear the dad's experience in parenting a kid with so much vulnerability, so much trauma in their nervous system. So thank you. Thank you for coming and having this conversation. I'm really excited to just chat longer and give other folks the opportunity to hear your story.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

Absolutely, Robin. I I'm such a big believer in the work that you've been doing. And so I just I'm I'm just glad to be able to come on and and talk about it and talk about the ways that it's it's really benefited us.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

Tell everybody listening just a as much or as little about what you would want them to know about you as we get going with this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

Yeah. Well, I was I was in foster care, I was adopted. Um, and so we ended up with uh three kiddos that came to us through the foster system about 12 years ago. And um, and you know, so I I run a nonprofit. We uh we we try to do a lot to to help foster and adoptive families. And it was probably it was before the book came out. I was we were desperate. We were we needed something.

unknown 4:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

And um I got onto a closed Facebook group for in Texas for uh foster and adoptive families. And I was like, we need help. Like the things that we're we've done a lot. We've we've gone to we've done TBRI trainings, we've done we've read books, we've read care and purpose, we've done all these things. And we were just we were desperate. Like, where where can we get some help? And somebody on there was like, hey, you need to check out this podcast. And so I started listening, and like I said, it was before the book came out, probably four or five months. So you're you're like promo in the book, and hey, the book's coming. And I'm I pre-ordered the book, and I was like, we're gonna, I gotta figure this out, you know. And so so we've had a long, hard journey. Yes, um, it it really has. And so, you know, your work has tremendously helped us to uh put one foot in front of the other, keep going, keep doing the best we can.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

And things are feeling uh particularly challenging for you right now.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's been super heavy. We've had some issues come up uh over the last 13, 14 months, and so um we're one kiddo is is uh facing some some legal issues, and then another one, and so he's not at home anymore, and then the other one, um the sec the the second one ended up not being able to continue um staying with us, and so we have one of the three still at home, um, and it has been it has it's been a hard, hard year.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Yeah. Yeah, and we've had you know such the deep privilege in the club of following along with your journey and yeah, what's been I mean, hard is like a ridiculous word. Impossible.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

It's just been impossible.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

Yeah, it has been kind of one thing after another after another. 2023 was a really tough year for our family. Um, my father-in-law, one of my sister was diagnosed with stage four metastatic breast cancer in January, and then my father-in-law with colon cancer in February, and then my mom uh with colon cancer in uh March. And wow, so yeah, it was I mean, it was just one thing after another. And I ended up starting counseling um that same that same year that summer, and you know, the the the counselors like you've you've got complex PTSD. Yeah. And so that was just just another heavy thing.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Um, so that felt like new information for you.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Well, she was like, you she was like, you know, and I I was like, I don't I don't know why having this diagnosis was just having a name to it. I I don't know what it was, but it just was it was just tough. I was in the Marines, and um and so I'm I'm really reeling with this this diagnosis, and I ended up doing a grant proposal, and there was a nonprofit in front of me, and it was a lady, and she's got a guy with her, and he's got a dog, and you know, it's a vested and everything, and I'm like, what is this? And she was like, Well, we have this nonprofit, we we pair rescue dogs with vets, train them, make them a service team, and so being able to, and so there's like group things and stuff like that, but getting around other vets that have this, you know, this diagnosis was was beneficial. So I got I got my service dog and everything um that summer, but then in October, um my parents died 12 days apart. Oh gosh. Right. So it was my my mom was my dad had severe, severe Alzheimer's. I mean, he was strapped to a chair, he he couldn't feed himself, he didn't open his eyes, he he just I mean, he was just there. And um, and so my mom was taking care of him, and then she was doing the chemo and stuff, she got really sick, she got went into the hospital, um, and so she ended up she ended up dying. Um and it was Robin, you know, they tell they talk about souls being I don't know, whatever. But so she died on a Thursday. We had the service the next Tuesday. And I'll be damned if my dad wasn't crying during the service.

unknown 9:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

How? Like I don't I don't understand. Yeah um so that was on a Tuesday. Well, on Saturday he quit eating, and the next Tuesday he was gone. So so we're so 2023 is really tough. I'm working full time, trying to be a dad, running a nonprofit, and you know, just it's just like one thing after another after another. And so um at the time, the the club you opened it every few months or something like that. And we're struggling. We got we got kiddos with difficult stuff, and I'm trying to work through this stuff with my parents, and and I'm like, I'm like checking my email like every day, like when's the club gonna open? When's it gonna open? And I just remember I was sitting at my desk in my off at the company that I was working at before I left my job to do the nonprofit full time and seeing the email, it's open today, and I'm like there. Um and so I just I just kind of dove in, just uh just dove into this community, you know, fostering is a lonely journey. You know, there's there's comments, you know. We were we were at a uh Mother's Day thing at church several years ago, and that's a hard day. That's a hard day. Yes, and um, and so the is uh the the pastor's wife were take were trying to take a family photo, you know, and and one of the one of the kiddos wasn't having it, you know, and not thinking, she's like, well, you know, be glad you have a mom that wants to take your picture. Oh yeah, right. You're like, oh my gosh, you know, and so there's I mean, and you've heard parents say that, you know, people say that, but in this context, yeah, it carries a lot more weight.

SPEAKER_02 11:34

A hundred percent. I mean, I do believe generally speaking, people are well-meaning, yeah, and sometimes just a little thoughtless or a little unaware, you know, we get wrapped up in the moment, and but that must have been really painful for you and him.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

For uh for every yeah, it's like oh my gosh, you know, and so um there's there's those kinds of comments that again people aren't setting out to be mean or hurtful, but they just say things sometimes that just hit. Yeah. And and so it's it's it's a lonely, it's a lonely thing. Um, people don't they don't understand what you're going through. You know, I couldn't understand um, you know, somebody's battle with leukemia because I I don't have leukemia and I've never had anybody in my family that has had leukemia. And so it is, it's just uh just heavy, lonely journey. And so I get in the club and it is just it's a safe place to be seen. You know, and it and and and there may not be this amazing revelation of some piece of wisdom that you've never thought about before. There are that times.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

Sometimes, sure. But you're right, like that's really not the best part.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

Well, no, the best part is being seen. Yeah, and somebody saying, I'm giving you a hug from a thousand miles away. I see your pain and I see your struggle, and and you know, and connecting with other people that have the same types of struggles, and and and they just understand, you know.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Yeah, it's so powerful for me, even to have this reflected back, you know, is yeah, it is when you start when you do the same thing over and over every day, it starts to just become this rote thing that you're doing every day. And I love the club, it's hands down my most truly my absolute most favorite part of my job. If I could do only that, I absolutely would. Although I do feel a lot of um motivation to continue doing the work that I do training professionals, because I know that that's such a pain point for parents, right? Is they can't find anyone to help them.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Or if they you end up finding somebody, but they're but six months out.

SPEAKER_02 14:03

100%. Like there's just not enough. Plus, you know, you know this as kind of you have your foot in a in a both, right? As a parent and as a professional, like you do this for work too. And it's easy to burn out when you do this work. And so so I am very committed to my work as professionals, but it really is the club and y'all that that have my have my absolute heart. And it is still just grounding, you know, to have these opportunities to connect with some of you individually and hear how this thing that I just like dreamed up a couple of years ago, five, maybe five years ago now. That's kind of bonkers, you know, how it's impacting you, which was of course my goal because I know exactly what you're saying. Like it's isolating, nobody gets it. I can't find any of their parents who get it. I can't find a professional who gets it. And I was like, okay, we're gonna fix that problem. We're gonna fix that problem.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Yeah, and I love it. I mean, I've actually um my kids have been in counselors and have actually given them a copy of your book. It's like, will you read this so we can speak the same language, you know?

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Well, that's really helpful.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it I just it it's just you know, and that doesn't even we haven't even talked about the book. I mean, the book has been just I mean, listening to the podcast is fantastic, but you sit down with Nat, you know, and on the first page, she's like, I knew it was gonna be hard. I didn't know it was gonna be this hard. Yeah, and I said that, and my wife has said that. I knew more because of my background, I had a better handle on kind of what we would be looking at. Um but not but Nick my wife just really she didn't have my experience, and so so just sitting with Nat as you as you go through these sessions with her and and really begin to unpack and understand why why does why does connection I need connection but it doesn't feel safe, you know, and so then I reject it. Yeah, you know, um just just following NAS journey and and uh and and and and seeing you know yourself and your your kids in this journey walking through it and really you know I've I've read a bunch, you know, I read uh uh Dr. Perry's book with Oprah, you know, what happened to you. It's a great book. It's a it's a really great book. Um and and uh you know Karen Purvis and all all these all these different great, great books. Yeah um but you know when we provide a placement package to a uh family that's bringing kiddos into their home, they get a copy of your book, not Oprah's and not somebody else's because we we felt the the impact in our in our journey and you know and the feedback that I've gotten from families too, it's like man, when I sit down to read, right? It's not I don't know how many hundreds of copies that we've given out. Um and and and some of them, you know, they're it's not being read. And and then it's like, okay, I picked up this book and oh my gosh, it it really it really helped. It really did. It just it your metaphors are just they just hit different um than than anything that that we've that we've experienced. And so it's it's just it's just empowering and it's encouraging to you know to learn more about why things are the way they are and maybe how to help.

SPEAKER_02 18:05

And maybe how to help. No, it's so funny because people come to any kind of thing, like a book or a pot, any kind of thing that's offers information, right? Certainly they come to it with please give me information that will help. Right. Of course. Why else would we seek it out?

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

And and then I hear so often exactly what you're saying. Like, well, yeah, it was kind of helpful in like telling me what to do. But what was really helpful was this other piece of really experiencing like somebody gets it. I like what you've said about you know how Nat says, you know, I knew it would be hard and it would be this hard. And that you all also thought that. I hear that a lot from parents too, with a lot of different things throughout the book. Um, and it I'm so aware of the privilege that I've had to sit with, I mean, at this point, thousands of gnats.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:06

And everyone's story is of course so different, but there is a very common thread through all of them.

SPEAKER_01 19:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

I was really able to lean into that to kind of make up Nat.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Yeah. Yeah. And I I do. I mean, it's been it's been tremendous. I mean, like I said, the podcast, the club, the book, there, it's just kind of all comes together to to to just try to keep putting one foot in front of the other and moving, moving forward and doing the best, doing the best that you you can, you know.

unknown 19:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

We were talking before you we hit record, and of course we've been I've been following your journey. Everyone in the club has been following your journey for a long time now.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:51

And your experience is kind almost this kind of textbook example of things can be impossible, like literally impossible. There is zero choice that's good.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:13

And how easy it is to fall into like hopelessness and despair when that's true. That that's just a core human experience, right? When there's no solution, you you you usually give up and shift into learned helplessness. And I'm sure that's been true for you at times, yeah. But I also do watch you continue to kind of hold on to this thread of I don't know if it's hope or just like even when things are impossible, you know, we can still keep going. I don't know. What how would you describe that?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

I don't know, maybe perseverance. Okay. And and hope is a big one. I I I do a thing every morning where um it's I I've worked with this business coach for a while and he kind of developed this journal. And so the f I start you you start with gratitude statements, I am statements, and then kind of a character trait that you want to kind of focus on for the day. And so many times it's endurance, it's perseverance, it's just doing the best you can every day to keep keep going and keep trying to keep trying to connect, keep trying to to help, you know, and um, you know, and and do like I said, do the best do the best that you can.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

How does it feel like the connection piece or being witnessed by people, or especially I think being true having people truly be with you without some um you know, false idea that they could actually make things? Better for you, right? Like they can't. They can't, right? Wait, we we actually really literally cannot change anything about what's happening for you. And there is still seems like there's something that's helpful.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

No, yeah. Yeah, you say you say you can't help, but at the same time you can. Yeah. Because just being connected to folks that that get it, they've walked it, you know. Um it may not change a kiddo's behavior or this or that, but you know, borrowing honestly the co-regulation from the group helps me stay regulated a little bit longer. Right. It's not I'm I'm certainly not, you know, able to just stay in connection mode of course not all the time.

SPEAKER_02 22:58

Me either.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

But being able to um to just borrow that co-regulation from the group, not and then not necessarily when I'm sitting there writing it, but just just knowing that there's people out there that that see you, that get you, that that care about you and your kids and all the things. It it helps you. I've my my my wife has not really gotten into the club. Um and a couple weeks ago, I moved the app to the top row of her phone. Home screen, top of the row. And I'm like, babe, I'm I'm just telling you, if you will, if you will get in there and just talk to some folks that get it, yeah, you'll you'll be more connected, you'll be more regulated. It's it's beneficial. And you know, and so I I mean I just believe very, very much that um that being in the club and being with people that no, they they're not they're not all fostering adoptive families who have been through what we've been through, but they're all struggling with behaviors from kiddos that that are heavily dysregulated for for for whatever reason. And um, and and so while it's it's true that there's you can't step in and fix anything, but if you can stay a little bit more connected and regulated a little bit longer, then then it does help.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Yeah. Do you feel like it's helped you stay out of the place of like despair a little bit more or not necessarily?

SPEAKER_00 24:59

No, yeah. I mean, you know, sometimes you know, it's pulling the poison out and just putting it on the page, you know. So sometimes it is coming in there and just saying, I am just struggling right now. And and and so just sometimes being able to get that out is beneficial, but then when you get the feedback from folks saying, I'm sorry. I see your pain. It's helpful.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Yeah. And and your story's not too big for us, right? Right? Like we're not like withdrawing in horror or like, oh, we don't talk about that kind of stuff here. Like there's nothing shocking in the club.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

No, because we're all we're all in it together. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

I'm hoping that folks listening are also feeling just a little bit of hope that when we're you're in a situation that does feel so hopeless, and like, I mean, I know that place too of like I'll never feel better. It will be bad like this forever. And because of the work that I do, I don't have a lot of um agenda to pull people out of that place. And instead, I think about how can I join them in that place.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:28

Because once we feel connected and seen, the nervous system tends to move out of that place on its own.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

So I'm hoping folks listening can like maybe feel the hope in that. And then I also know a lot of professionals listen. And so I am always hopeful that professionals will feel the permission to do the same thing. I know that in our professional roles, and regardless of what that role is, somebody somewhere is like paying us for something. Like it's how we're, you know, making that's how things work here. Um and there can be what I've seen a lot of professionals is once it shifts into that role, right? Of like somebody's paying me for something, whether it's the actual person in front of me or my organization or an insurance company, it feels it gets harder to believe that the power of just like staying present with someone is the it that is the work.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Yeah, it absolutely is. I mean, you know, you you know, there may be some some wisdom that's that's shared. And and you hope that there is. But you know, healing, healing comes from connection. Yeah. I mean, it just does. That's that's that's where it has to come from. I mean, where else is it gonna come from? You know, and so you know, whether you're a counselor sitting across the table or coffee table from somebody, or you know, just you know, and and maybe it's maybe it's take take that and apply it, you know, in in your friend circles, in your circles at church or something. You know, you don't have to be, you know, I don't know how I don't even know who all in the club is a counselor. I mean, I I don't know. Um and um so but there's a lot that aren't.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Oh, for sure. The vast majority, although it is common in this kind of work to do both, right? To be the parent of a kiddo who's really struggling and also to do this work professionally. So we have a lot, a lot, a lot of folks who I who are both, right, right. But it's certainly for people in their parenting role, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:59

Like it's not for and that's and that's what I'm getting at is so many people that are in there that are they're not they're not counselors, right? They're not licensed, they're not social workers, they're just parents, yes, who who were on the road to heading in the right direct in the same direction, you know, and that is just that's like I said, that's where the healing comes from. That's where the ability to uh to keep uh moving forward uh is is is is and so you yeah, I mean some and maybe maybe it's maybe like I said, and maybe it's not in the club, but maybe you've got a friend that's that's in uh the the fight. And it whether it's this fight or a different fight, the the principle's the same. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Connecting with uh people is is is that's that's where the work is, that's where the healing is. You know, we we do these placement packages. Um, and I tell people all the time, we're we're bringing foster families some clothes or some diapers and a suitcase and the Bible and a teddy bear and and all these things. We're we're we're meeting a a physical need.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 30:16

But that's not what people talk about.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

100%.

unknown 30:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

They talk about uh the fact that somebody cared enough to load up a suitcase full of new stuff and drive it to my front door. That's that is the that is my work. That is is the is the the blessing that we're we're giving these families is hope and connection. Um in this, you know, we try to be there within 24 hours of when a kiddo gets placed. And you know, we're we're trying to speak to the kiddo. You're valuable, this place is safe. There's a comforting, soft, loving blanket, you know, to make you feel a little bit more comfortable. Um and so the kiddos get the the feedback that I this I'm going through hell right now, yeah. Right? Yeah um nothing's familiar, everything I'm I'm here because something terrible has happened. Um and somebody somebody cared enough to bring me a suitcase full of stuff. Um and then and and and then for the the family that's welcoming these kiddos into their home, they they feel seen, they feel valuable, they they feel that connection. Um because it's it's chaos, you know, those first couple days are just absolute chaos. And so um, so that's that's that's the work of the of our placement package is is that connection, right?

SPEAKER_02 31:55

I've it feels like what you're saying so mirrors what I work so hard to teach in like the immersion program, right? Where we're teaching professionals this this again, people come to the immersion program wanting to learn a lot of tools. Some are super overt about that, some come in and say, I'm just here because I want to be able to teach your stuff. I want this tool, I want to know what to do when I when this XYZ happens. And zero people talk about the tools that they learned at the end of the year. Literally zero. I have no doubt. I have never gotten feedback that was about how awesome the tools were. And I don't think that means that they weren't. Right. I think you know, people are uh pretty satisfied with the amount of tools they're walking away with, but that it almost like fades into the background and becomes kind of secondary when it's like layered on top of this other thing, right? The connection, the presence that is impossible to get or understand that unless you've experienced it, which is why I've structured the program the way I have too, because those folks need to experience it as well. So they leave with like, oh yeah, the tools are cool, but it's actually this other thing that's really important. And yeah, we need a tool. Like you need you need something to show up with. You need the package, and it is helpful. It is helpful. And it's almost like it's the thing that it's like the delivery system. Like, because of this package, I'm showing up on your front door.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 33:41

But I'm not showing up just to get, you know, like that's just what got me here. What I'm really here to give you is this. And I think that's professionals start to feel so much more comfortable with that too. That's like, yeah, we've got some helpful tools, thank goodness, right? Because I know for you, it's but it's like parents come in and they're like, please, please give me some idea.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 34:02

So like, yes, absolutely, we can do that. And what actually is really gonna change your life is this other piece. We can't do one without the other.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

No, no. And then that's why, you know, that's why it, you know, if you don't, if you don't, if you've got a counselor and you don't feel connected, like we're on the same wavelength, then you probably need to find a different counselor. Because you you you have to be feel safe enough to to be open to that connection, yeah, to have to have the opportunity to to to find healing, you know, and and all these different ways of doing that, whether it's connecting with fictional gnat, totally, the page, yep, or the podcast, or or the club, or or or whatever it is. I mean, that's that's like you said, that's where the work is. It's it's connection.

SPEAKER_02 35:01

Yeah, that was one of my top goals, you know, and I really sat down and was like, I have a very vivid memory actually being on the treadmill, just walking on the treadmill and having the thought of writing a book in my mind. You know, people have talked about that for a long time and have wanted me to write one. And I really felt committed to like, if I'm going to write a book that people are going to invest their time in reading, like I just want I want it to be different. Like, I don't want it to be just another parenting book with a bunch of tools. Like, I just don't see how that's helpful. Uh the tools are really not. I mean, sure, they're presented in a unique way, and it's a unique way that lands with people, and that's wonderful. But I'm like, that's that's really not what people need. People don't really need to read another book full of tools. What they really need is the things you're talking about, right? To be seen, presence, to be like to someone for someone to like really show up and be like, you're worth it.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

And I was like, can I do that in a book?

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:02

And I really try.

SPEAKER_00 36:04

I think you hit the nail on the head with it. I mean, you just, you know, it it does, it hits. And, you know, and you you feel connected to you, you feel uh kind of a sense of community with Nat. I mean, somebody understands, and and it's the same in the club. I mean, it's it, you know, it people um people value each other, they see each other, and and they just they just want to be with them, just help them.

SPEAKER_02 36:32

And I think tell me what you think about this too, because you you come into the club in both ways. Like you come in needing help and needing support, needing to be seen and needing corregulation, but you come in in the other world too, right? You offer a lot.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Does it feel like that piece is helpful as well? Like being in the having the capacity to offer.

SPEAKER_00 36:54

Absolutely. I mean, you want, you know, you you see somebody else's struggle and you know I I need that.

SPEAKER_01 37:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:03

Well, well, right now they need that. Yeah. You know, and they need to be seen and and heard. And again, there's maybe there's a piece of advice or or something, but honestly, the majority of the time for me, when I see when I'm seeing somebody struggle, I'm I'm not throwing out some try to nugget of wit wisdom. It's right, it's just, I'm so sorry. I'm I'm with you right now. I see you. And so that's you know, it's it's kind of that, it's a two-way street, really. I mean, oh yeah. You're you're you're you're receiving co-regulation, but you're also you're also giving it. And and that's and that's that's beneficial.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

I also really agree. I think that's one of the important pieces. And it's also an important piece to be clear with folks, it's not a requirement, right? That it really feels authentic and spontaneous.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

And and and it comes at a certain stage of the journey and can kind of ebb and flow. But I'm offering that just, you know, one of the things that I think would be wonderful if there were more things like the club. And so if folks are can listen and kind of hear you articulate some of the things that have been exceptionally helpful for you, and then they're in a position where they could create something or start something, especially local, right? I mean, that is one of the drawbacks of the club, right? Is that sure I mean it's amazing that we have people from all over the world, but we're not getting together in person. And so I think for people to hear, you know, some of the things that have been so impactful for um for parents is hopefully then going to kind of inspire other people to weave some of those ideas into the you know, groups they've already created or maybe crew with creating some group. And just like you've said, you do not have to be a professional for this.

SPEAKER_00 39:07

Like, yeah, I didn't learn this. Well, we haven't we haven't really even talked about the the connect con the co-regulation times. Oh yeah. And and there the all the other stuff that's in there too. Um, that's that's phenomenal resources. Um, but man, yeah, man a lot. It's just, you know, if you're if you're desperate and you need you need some connection and to help you move move the needle, I mean, yeah, that's where it's at.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

One of the things I've heard you say that um I think would be a really lovely place to kind of end on or wrap up here is about how this experience and kind of cultivating some increased regulation and you know, receiving presence and connection and being able to offer presence and connection. This hasn't only helped you as a parent or even just at work. Like this has changed the way I assume you sh kind of show up in the world. Absolutely. How you interact with the person who texts you out at the grocery store.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

And right. Yeah. I mean, you we you when when you go through the the history that that I did, you know, in care and then adopted and and then and it was not a great home life, um, you know it's harder to to to be you know open for that connection. Yes. Um and so um so having that though it's a it's a it's a tool, it's it's co-regulation helps in in in in all the ways, right? Um whether it's you know delivering a placement package and being able to to really connect with somebody that's that's receiving that or it's somebody at church or you know, some somebody that's hacked off for some reason. Yeah, you know, um it it does it change it it it when you when you have in mind that the co-regulation and and just being able to stay keep the owl brain a little bit longer, yeah, that helps you be open and more more able to connect with folks when when when they're out and about in the world and and not, you know, yeah, not not that they're not in a super great place, you know.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

You're making me think of a story that I'll share really quick. That um just over the weekend we were driving home from Texas, so 20 plus hour road trip. Yeah, we went through a drive-through. So I think we we stopped at a What's her because you know we can't get Whataburger up here, right? So we're like before we leave Whataburger Land, right? So we're in we were like quick detour off a freeway, right? Because we got this like huge trip.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

We were in this Whataburger line for like a bajillion years. The woman working and like taking her order over the speaker, but then also we realized it was the person at the window, too, was so overwhelmed. Sure, so overwhelmed. I mean, it was clear they were so backed up. Yeah, it was and oh my gosh. And this this sweet woman was just working so hard. So she clearly was working so hard. So then, okay, finally we actually get to the window, and um, you know, my husband and I just happened to be in a great place that day. This is not how we always handled interactions, but we just both were, especially him, he was driving, was just able, like we were just like, How are you? It feels like a lot's going on. She's like, she said, It's my first day.

SPEAKER_00 42:57

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

And I'm like, first of all, where is your health? How is this possible that they've left you like this? And so I'm like, You are doing awesome for your first day. And she's like, Thank you. And then my husband's like, again, he was closer. And it was very clear because also we were at that window for a while because everything was very slow. Yeah. When she gave us food that wasn't even ours, like we opened it up when I'm like, I'm so sorry, but this isn't ours. And then we had to give it back. So and it was so clear as we drove away that like the interaction we had with this woman took her nervous system down a notch.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 43:34

And I just I did. I felt so just grateful for that opportunity to this woman who's like, I'm like, it's your first day. Who has abandoned you here? And it's like so frantic, was keeping a smile on her face, and like just truly so grateful that we could be who we were in that moment again. We're not always set regulated, but in that moment and just really take a moment to connect with her and like slow down, tell her she's doing a great job, and driving away, believing or hoping maybe that that impacted her first day at work.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Absolutely. Yeah, for sure. And yeah, if we can take that and apply it to all the places.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

I've really thought for a long time, and I don't say this too often because I don't want it to feel like pressure, but I've really thought for a long, long, long time for decades, like folks like y'all in the club, you are changing the world. And it's not your job to do that. Your job is to take care of your kids and you know, do the things you need to do, take care of yourself. But I really believe because of what we've just talked about, because you don't have an option to kind of find your way eventually to this truth of I'm completely out of control. The only thing I can do is be present with myself. So I can try to be present with other people and try to offer as much connection and co-regulation and receive as much. I mean, ultimately, that's kind of what it all boils down to. But you really have to be in a pretty tremendous amount of crisis to come face to face with that reality.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

And, you know, folks in the club are living that crisis every day. They just can't escape that reality. And I really, I've believed this for so, so, so long. Like y'all are the ones who are gonna change the mess that we're all in, you know, with all the dysregulation globally and because you have no other choice.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:46

And again, it's not your job, it's not an added responsibility for you. It's just happening because of how you show up in the world differently. So I want you to know I really see that too.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

Yeah. Well, I see and and appreciate so so much the work um that that you're doing. Um, you know, and and whoever that random person was on that muster adupt Facebook group that that pointed me to your podcast. Golly, thank you to them, because that was such a benefit.

SPEAKER_02 46:20

Yeah. It's been really delightful to talk with you again. This is our second time being able to do this, and I'm just so grateful for the work that you're doing in the world, it's amazing. But also, you know, I have so much gratitude for adults who have their own histories of complex trauma who can give some like narration to their inner experience because it's a little harder for kids to do that. And I've learned so much about what kids are experiencing because the grown ups can kind of articulate what's happening for them. So I really am grateful to you for that as well.

SPEAKER_00 46:59

Oh, thanks. Yeah, thanks, and thanks for your work.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

Yes. Thank you for taking the time to be with me this morning. I've really enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Yeah, me too. It's always good.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

Yeah.