Ep 277: This Kind of Shame Doesn't Heal Alone: A Parent Guest

So many struggling and overwhelmed parents feel like their biggest problems are their kids' behaviors and the chaos that's taking over their family. This week's guest, a longtime Club member, talks about how she slowly came to realize that what she really needed to focus on wasn't strategies to change her kids' behavior, but experiences that would soften the shame she was carrying.

This guest bravely shares that her shame didn't soften on her own. It took showing up in community with other parents who were honest about their own mess and who received her without judgment, over and over, before she could start offering herself that same compassion.

In this episode you'll learn:

• Why self-compassion is almost impossible to build alone
• How this mom's own regulation changed before her kids' behavior did
• What it sounds like when your kids start offering that same compassion back to you — and to themselves

Read the full transcript at: URL goes here

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 2:15

So when your kids' behavior is baffling and yours is too, sometimes, yeah. I know. Let's take a break from all the baboozle here on the baffling behavior.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Well, hey, everybody. Welcome. Or maybe this is a welcome back to another episode of the Baffling Behavior Show. I am your host, Robin Gobel, and y'all, this is a podcast where we take the science of being relationally, socially, and behaviorally human and try to make it make sense and be actually useful in your real live experience of parenting kids with big baffling behaviors and vulnerable nervous systems. I know so many of you listening have kids with histories of complex trauma, attachment trauma, but also that a lot of you have kids with vulnerable nervous systems for a whole host of other reasons. So whoever you are, however you've been led here, I'm so glad you're here. All of you is welcome. Now, I recorded this podcast interview with a really long-term club member and also actually a graduate of the immersion program. We recorded this interview a couple weeks before the club was scheduled to open next, which really was just a total result of scheduling and when this mom's schedule was available to record. But as I was kind of putting the episode together and getting it ready to air, I was like, well, this is actually a perfect episode to air on August 4th today, the day that the club opens next for new members. We're will be open August 4th through the 8th. No, no, no, through the 7th, August 4th through 7th for just a few days. And if you happen to be hearing this episode at a later date, don't worry. The club is probably either open again now or will be open again soon. Y'all, this member is a long-term club member and actually also a graduate of the Immersion Program. And I've had the great fortune to be able to really get to know her uh quite well over the past many years at this point, maybe five. Um, I have watched her, you know, really mostly from just the other side of my computer screen on a forum and occasionally during live meetings, just grow so substantially in her self-compassion, her integrated presence, her capacity to be with her kids dysregulation, and her capacity to both set and hold really clear boundaries, including in those moments when she just simply cannot do or give any more. Now, also hear me say that while all of us have the capacity to grow these skills or, you know, cultivate these experiences in our own nervous system. Of course, none of us are ever doing them all the time. So there's no pressure there. You know, we're growing our capacity so that we can grow how often we can be integrated. And also we can grow in the ease in which we can kind of shift back into integration and regulation after moments of pretty intense dysregulation, which of course, on our parenting journey, happens a lot. Like so many, maybe almost all of our club members, this member has really wrestled with the desire to, of course, change the chaos in her home while also realizing that she absolutely positively cannot control anyone else's behaviors, which is a really, really tough tightrope for any parent to walk, but especially for parents of kids with like really big, really intense, at times dangerous behaviors. Well, you know, when I clicked off of the virtual meeting that I was having with this club member where we recorded this episode, I had such an overwhelming sense of gravitude, gratitude, like gratitude for this parent, gratitude for all of the mentors I've ever had in my life who have been for me, who I can now be for others. Gratitude for all the parents and caregivers in the club, for everyone who listens to this podcast, who's read my book, and who has risked trying something just a little bit different with their kids. I really honestly cannot believe that this is my job. Anyway, I know you all will love this episode. And if you're longing to be in a community of parents who are real, authentic, vulnerable, struggling, and working super hard to grow their own owl brains, we'd love, love, love, love to have you join us over in the club. We are in August planning a workshop where we get together and make a literal like felt safety plan for our kids, practical ways we can add cues of safety to their inside, outside, and between buckets, things practical, tangible yields to do immediately, which sometimes is kind of the only thing we can do because we can't really change the stress that our kids are experiencing in so many different ways. Of course, when we can, we want to do that, but so often we really can't. So the next option is to really bulk up the cues of safety that they have available to them. So we're gonna have a whole workshop being very practical, identifying all of those things. Anyway y'all, it is my absolute deepest honor to share with you this club member, this immersion program graduate, this parent's story. Thank you for holding her story with such reverence. Everybody, I'm just so delighted to welcome to the podcast and invite you to a club member, a long-term club member, right? Didn't we just have this conversation recently? You've been there quite a long time.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Yes. Uh since 2021, there was a break at one point, but I think in total, four four-ish years. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

Yeah. And also a graduate of our immersion program. So we have really had the opportunity to get to know each other. And when I put out kind of a call to the club to, you know, invite folks to share their story and connect with the listeners of the podcast. You tossed your name out there. So I'm so glad that we're gonna be able to have this conversation today. Me too, Robin. Tell folks who are listening just a little bit about your background, your story, your family story. What would you like folks to know?

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Sure. So I'm parenting uh four children that we adopted as a sibling group. They've been with us for seven and a half years, and we have loads of big baffling behaviors um that come along with their history and everything that they've experienced. Yeah. They range in ages from 11 to 15 at this point.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

What felt, I don't know, interesting, inspiring, curious about being able to connect with me like this and then connect, of course, with everybody listening.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

Yeah, I well, I remember at the point that I saw you recommended on Facebook, I think in a connection parenting group, I was so desperate and feeling so alone, um a bit hopeless, a bit, you know, I I have to fix this, like, you know, from a quite a dysregulated place. And so when I saw you offer this invitation, I really wanted to get on and talk about my journey in hopes that somebody out there, or maybe somebody's out there listening to this would hear this story and maybe get a little spark of hope or a little interest in what might be possible in their own family, or at the very least to just feel seen and heard in what they're going through.

unknown 10:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

You posted recently, correct me if I'm wrong, about kind of some hopefulness to the club, even about how long you've been working at this and the shifts and changes that you've seen in your family. And that of course they've not come super quickly, but that they have come.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

Yeah. Yeah, they have come, Robin. Um so I've been working, I think, for about three years with the nervous system lens approach. I was with you for about two years before that and like not really getting it, right? Still trying to do punishment and a reward, still falling into my own conditioning over and over and over. And I remember that moment in it was when the book came out, it was in 2023, and there was something about reading Nat's story and something about the way you were with her. And there's a line in the book, I don't remember where it is, where you just say, Hey, it's about co-regulating over and over and over. That eventually allows your child to be able to access that regulation for themselves. And it was like a lightning strike. I was like, Oh, oh, I get it. I get it, and so I dropped all punishment and reward like that day. I was like, I'm done, like I'm not trying this anymore, I have to stick with this. Um and it wasn't like there were immediate changes, but I began to actually see really tangible shifts in my children, and reflecting back, Robin, it's not my children that have changed the most, it's me. It's me. I've seen the most changes in myself. And I'm learning that actually if I want my children to be able to show up in a regulated way, they do that best when I'm able to regulate.

unknown 15:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Yeah. As you're kind of reflecting back on this, I mean, your face is warm and there's a soft smile. So it also feels like this reflection doesn't feel critical. Like you're not having the sense of like, well, I discovered it was me who had to change.

SPEAKER_00 15:53

Yeah. One of the the most precious gifts that that you and the club have given to me is the ability to bring myself compassion. And I had read Kristen Neff's book way back when it came out, but I wasn't experiencing myself in such a way that putting the work into shifting what was in me felt meaningful. But the amount of shame and self-condemnation that I was experiencing in my parenting journey was intense because the level of dysregulation and terror in my body that I was experiencing and the resulting behaviors that I was doing as a parent were intense. And you really just with such gentleness, encouraged self-compassion in a way that I began to integrate it really deeply. And that has brought so much softness to this journey in a really powerful way.

SPEAKER_01 17:21

I often feel like it's the most important thing, for lack of more eloquent words, um, to begin to kind of pull into our own nervous systems, which is also one of my favorite things about what does happen inside the club, because I know from my own personal journey with self-compassion. I mean, the first time, so I actually know Dr. Neff. She lives outside Austin. She's a UT Austin professor. I've been to her house. First time I read her book, I was like, oh hell no. Like, this makes sense. Like, I get this and I get the science, and I love the science, and I love that you've researched this. And this feels like a really important thing to like bring my clients. And in no way, shape, or form is this accessible to me in any way. Like it felt terrifying. Like the idea of being willing to kind of well, really, I wouldn't use this language way back then, but to like shift my own nervous system that um confidently into a more open connection mode place. It just wasn't accessible to me, not with regards to myself. Yeah. And so it always just feels so ironic when I think about how folks do talk about that so much as you know, one of the top things that they've gotten from my work. And I also just feel so much gratitude. I mean, it's just like I'm almost like in awe of it to watch kind of my own journey from like, oh, no, that's not possible, to like, well, not only is it possible, but it's I'm also able to like offer it to folks in a way that is dramatically shifting their parenting, and that's really lovely, but really their relationship with themselves. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Yeah. You know what made it more accessible to me, Robin, was beginning to understand the nervous system. Yeah. Because then my own behaviors made sense. And so the two together really allowed me to start shifting into a place of like, oh, like, of course I did that. Yeah. Of course I did. Oh, sweetheart. Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 19:53

Yeah. As you say that, oh, sweetheart, actually, who I hear is my therapist. And that makes me just so curious to think about how it like we embed in one another, and then we also embed in one another who's embedded in us. Yes. And I just think that's so wonderful and magic. I don't know. I just think the magic of what happens neurobiologically is so remarkable.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

It is so remarkable. And my children now offer that same compassion when I act in a way that isn't in alignment with how I like, and I go for a repair. I often hear back, I forgive you, mommy. I know you're you're a perfectly imperfect mom. They repeat back to me. They're like, I know you didn't mean, I know you were in your watchdog.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Do you feel like they both are starting to believe that about themselves as well?

SPEAKER_00 21:08

For some of them, they have more access than others. Sure. Uh my child with the most profound impacts based on the the trauma history still really, really struggles, uh, but is open to being led through self-compassion now. And so you know, we're we talk about scaffolding a lot in the club. Yeah. Um, and he needs a lot of scaffolding for self-compassion. And so I'll I will lead him through a, you know, oh, of course I had a hard time with it. It makes sense that I had a hard time with it. Anybody under these circumstances could have an equally hard time with that. And may I still be kind to myself in this moment. Other of my children, you know, when when asked, Oh, have you brought compassion to yourself, can access that more easily uh in the moment. So we're at different places, but yeah, there they are all I'm beginning to see in each of them there is some growth for them.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yeah. When I think about your one who maybe is a little further away from accessing safely their own experience of self-compassion, I think also again about the club, and I also realized that I totally left this idea hanging a couple moments ago, is that the the ability to come into connection with groups of people, with a group of people where you're able to observe other people giving and receiving compassion, but with also no kind of agenda or expectation that you join in is one of the things that I was actually quite deliberate about when I kind of, you know, dreamt up what we were gonna do inside the club that like we can give, we can receive, and we can watch others give and receive because that distance I well, I'll just say I know for me personally, there was a moment in my life where I was like, yay, self-compassion, I'm all in. And then I really had to like have this like moment with myself where I was like, why do I continue to think I am the one like outlying variable here? Like, what's so special about me that it doesn't apply to me? And I had to get really honest with myself about that. And I feel like in so many ways, maybe not through that with that actual language, but in so many ways, like once you're steeped in a community of honest people who are actually authentically showing up and talking about all the things, there just kind of comes this moment where you're like, Yeah, what does make me the one outlying variable here? I I'll bet I deserve this too. And then that makes me think of your one kiddo that still maybe has a little further to come along, right? Like that kiddo is embedded in this system and experiencing it all the time. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Yeah, yeah. When I hear you talking about that, Robin, there's something coming to my mind about being in the club and learning self-compassion. At one point, I think you said, you know, self-compassion is like the antidote to shame. And that's that's what I was living with when I joined the club was just so much shame about, you know, perceiving myself as not being good enough or doing a good enough job as a parent while desperately wanting to and wanting others to perceive me as being a really good, competent parent. And so there was a lot of shame and hiding in that. And then I watched other parents showing up so transparently bringing so much truth about their journey and what was happening in their family, what they were doing, their own behaviors, how they were reacting to their child's behaviors, and then being received. By you and by other parents with so much kindness. And I was like, oh, this is different. This is a different place. Like, this is not like anything else on the internet that I've been with. There's no like peacocking around or like ego like stuff happening. Like people are showing up real and they are really connecting with each other. And that brought so much safety to my nervous system in a way that I didn't know that I needed. Yeah, it was really beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Yeah. It feels like such confirmation of the underlying science that if we kind of are intentional, intentional, well, intentional about cultivating some pretty specific cues of safety, that compassion emerges because I'm always just so blown away. It's like we do have compassion, of course, and self-compassion as part of our manifesto, but I don't teach people how to offer compassion. I think it's modeled, of course, but I also think it emerges just spontaneously because of the pieces of safety that we've, you know, that it we've embedded. I mean, I've created some structure, of course, but it's pulled off because of all the members for sure.

SPEAKER_00 27:47

Yeah. I think compassion emerges when we are able to connect. And you talk about connection being a biological imperative. And it's like, oh, this is a space where we're able to really connect because it feels so safe.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's hands down my most favorite part of my job. If if if it was the only thing I could do, it is all I it was, it's all I would do. I think there is something really remarkable about people showing up at a time in their life where they just have no more pretenses left. It's raw, it's real, it's like take what you get. And then what they experience from that is like, oh, I'm so welcomed in exactly that. And it's pretty, it's pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

It is pretty awesome. And even as a parent who's been in the club for a while and one of the more tenured members of the club, I still get to show up in a dysregulated state with all my yuck and just, you know, put it in there.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

And I'm still received.

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

And I can offer compassion, you know, in a way that I I wasn't able to at the beginning. It simply around my ability to articulate certain things because of the learning that I've done. Yeah. But I can do both. Right. And I I don't carry with me this sense of like, oh, you know, I'm a more tenured member. I can I should only be showing up in this way, not this way. I still feel like in this moments of like desperation, I'm like, uh, I need to go post in the club. Like, and even just putting a post in there, yeah, before anyone responds, I already start to feel settled because I already know when this is being read, it's being read from a place of compassion and connection.

SPEAKER_01 30:04

Yes, it's awesome that we can take these neurobiological theories, like the science that's happening with people in relationship, and they can happen on the internet. It's just mind-blowing to me, but they really do happen. Like we embed one another into our own like neurobiology. And so as we post, already then those like neural networks of being held, being seen, being not judged are already, they're just like primed and ready to go, even before somebody does reply. I mean, it really is just awesome that the internet can work this way. So awesome. Yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:50

So it's interesting to hear your journey from a place of having such a hard time having any level of compassion for yourself. Like so much shame, so much judgment towards yourself and your parenting. And then one day afternoon, you messaged me and said something. I don't remember specifically, but I know you reached out and was and asked, like, what would you think about if I applied for the immersion program? Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So there's a moment where you thought, I think I could help people.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Yes. Yeah. There was what you know, Robin, I've I've really been on a pretty intense inner growth journey for the last five years. And, you know, being in the club and and learning your work, but also doing some attachment work, doing, you know, I'm in therapy for, you know, some things. There's a there's a number of things that I've been engaging with over the last five years. And I've watched myself really shift in so many ways. And when I reflect on that, none of it came from me. It's these beautiful gifts that have been given to me from these remarkable teachers that I am so lucky to have in my life. And these teachers all say the same thing to me, that what they are giving me came from their teachers. And so what was arising in me is this longing to coalesce what what I have been given and to pass that along. To to be with parents who were in that place that I was, and to hold them with that presence and that kindness and compassion, to reflect to them their inherent preciousness as a human life when they can't believe it on their own.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Yeah.

unknown 33:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

I also think that then when that's our hope and our work, as opposed to like knowing all the answers and fixing people's problems, the work also it gets a lot easier.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Yeah. Yeah. And I know I I can't fix their problems. I can't fix my own problems. Exactly. Which is also part of the journey.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

And one of my growth edges now is to over and over surrender to the fact that I cannot control another human. I cannot. And sometimes I just hate that and I just rail against it, and parts of me rise up with this protective energy of like, no, I must make this stop. Yep. Same. But I can't control another person. Yeah. And so I come into this desire to support other parents, knowing, like, oh, they might show up and really want me to just give the magic answer. But I know it's not in that. There is no like, oh, flip this switch and then dial this knob and then do this dance. And all of this will be, it doesn't, it doesn't happen that way.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

It feels like it sometimes, right? That it's that like the switch and this knob and this dance, you know, it could feel like it's that, I don't know, tricky. It is that tricky, and also that's not ever a solution. And I do believe that for whatever reason, you know, I think some of us do this work because of our parenting journey, some of us do this work because of other backgrounds or histories, some of us do this work because we were those kids. And I think that knowingness that lives underneath all of it, of this truth of like, and there is no one magic answer is what I I mean, I just think it's one of the most important things to bring to this work to really hold that steadiness of there are things I can offer folks and it's helpful. Yes. And I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 36:11

Yes, both are true.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

Both are true. There's a lot of tools and techniques and things we can experiment with.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

And sometimes we end up landing on something that seems to bring some more ease and some more regulation, and that's great. And sometimes we land on something that brings a little bit more ease and regulation sometimes, but not all the time, or for a little bit of time, but not for an extended period of time. I'm beginning to see as my children are growing and developing that oh, things that used to be challenges are no longer challenges, and there are new challenges that emerge. And so I'm learning how to parent every day. And another thing that I'm learning is there is no there.

SPEAKER_02 37:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

Like I joined the club looking for the there. Like, I'm just gonna get there and everything will be fine. Yeah, that doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

No, it's like it keeps getting further away, actually. I find in my own personal work, it's like, man, the more work you do, the the more work there is to do. Yes. Yes.

unknown 37:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:41

And I was like, does it get easier? I'm not sure. I think maybe in some ways it gets quote unquote easier because for me personally, I'm not saying this is true or anyone else, because more parts of me believe that it's possible. I think like to feel better or for there to be change. I think it used to feel so impossible. And so for a long time it was it was coming out of such a desperation, not a true belief that it was possible.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Uh yes, I can relate to that a lot. And I would say that for me, there's also this inner strength and fortitude that has been growing over time. That's it's like a solid ground to stand on.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

So I'm coming out of slowly a period of really deep burnout that hit for a number of reasons, both family stuff, but also work stuff and some health stuff, just everything all at once. And it was too much. Yeah. It was too much. And I I went into quite a a period of collapse. Um and even in that, because of all the work that I'd done, there was still this place of grounding deep inside that I I could just believe, oh, this isn't gonna be forever. Like this is what it is right now. And that's okay. Yeah, I can be with that. So it's that that ability to be with the really, really hard that has grown in me.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

Yes, same. Yeah, but and having this belief that something will change, like we can't get like stuck there forever. Yeah. I think has been helpful for me as well. You know, this other thing I've been I I think observing from you lately, tell me if I get this right or wrong, or how you would tweak it, is also more okayness with let's say that there could be a quote unquote right way to handle something, which I don't totally believe in, but sometimes we want to sit back and we're like looking at the science and we're like, well, okay, here's what's probably needed. And uh an ability to be like, sure, that is probably what my kid needs. And right now I can't do it. And we're gonna be totally okay with that.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Yeah. Yes, I historically have held myself to such a high bar when it comes to being right and doing the right thing. Yeah. And there are moments now where, yeah, I'm able to look at the big picture and say, the ideal response is not possible for me right now. Yeah. And that's okay, and that makes sense. And we're gonna get through this.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

Yes, it's not gonna like destroy all the work we've done, or it's not gonna, it just is true right now. Yes. Yeah, yeah. One of the things I pay a little bit of attention to in the club is like our long-term members still feeling safe enough to show up in exactly the way you've described. Like, like that, there's no pressure associated with I've been here for a while, so I should have it all together. But that our long-term members are still showing up in the like mess of everything. I mean, I do that's one of the things I kind of pay attention to and track to know, okay, like the community is still supporting one another in the way that I really want it to. That becoming a, I don't even know what that would mean. How do you become a long-term member? But I think there is a felt sense of like who's been around for a long, you know, a while and whatnot. That there's no more, there's no pressure, there's no expectation on those folks to have to show up in a different way or to have figured it out or to give more than they receive or anything like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:24

There I wholeheartedly um can attest the fact that I do not experience pressure like that at all. I really feel like I can, yeah, I can come. I can come with with what is happening right now. Um and I need to be able to do that, right?

unknown 42:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

I have built for myself a whole support network. And the club is a really key piece of that for me. Yeah.

unknown 42:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Well, and without question, I know club members would say, like, you know, you're a key piece of what their experience is in the club. And that's certainly not pressure, but just, you know, a little, just a little seeing of you. That the way that you come and arrive and offer and receive. I mean, I really in some ways think that's almost the most important part, that place of still being willing and able to receive.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

Yeah. Yeah, I agree with you. And I um I find that sometimes when I show up with the most mess, I'm I'm offering the most to other club members. Because the number of times that people respond with, oh, I really needed someone else to say that, or I feel so seen with what you just brought. Uh it's I'm receiving a gift and being able to post and I'm offering a gift to somebody else. And I'm, you know, not intentionally, that's just how it's it's happening, yeah, just in the the the whole structure of what is and what the club is that allows for that to happen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

Everyone has their own unique way of showing up, right? Some people are frequent posters, and some people are there every day, but we don't even know that they're there. And they're just reading and getting the same, you know, and that is also another one of my favorite aspects. It is just like it's just designed to be like touch in and out as you need to in the way that you need to. And we need people who post frequently because we do, you know, we need that energy, and we need people who comment frequently, but we don't need everybody to do like we and it just works out. It's like people come as they are and give and receive in the way that they can. And yeah, it it's remarkable to think how it just really is.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

And you know, I was I went to a crafter noon recently, which I don't normally do, but I've never even been to one. And someone was there, and she was like, the only thing I do in the club is crafter noons. I love that. She comes to all of them. And I was like, Great. So, like, you're doing crafter noons, and I'm almost exclusively in the forum. Every once in a while I can pop into, you know, like an ask Robin Anything or something like that. But I mostly rely on on the videos in the forum, and that's that works for me. And other people are showing up to live events, and that works for them. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

And some people are showing up to the events that have nothing to do with our parenting, right? Like the craft, I really do just love that, and it's so grateful at this moment, even for Laura, because those were her idea, and she executed them. And I've really never even been to one, and I just know that they really matter to some folks.

SPEAKER_00 46:30

Yeah, for a long time I was like, Oh, I don't craft, I won't have anything to do. Um, but as part of healing from burnout, I recently started coloring uh with some coloring books. So I showed up with my coloring book, and you know what? Sitting there, just being with other parents that I knew got it. Yeah, even though we were not discussing really anything parenting related, it it was soothing. It was soothing to my nervous system. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

I think it's also nice to just remember we're more than parents. There's other parts of us, and you know, we can have a purpose and also recognize the complexities of each of us, and that we are more than just who we are with our parenting hat on.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

Yeah. Yeah. That's a beautiful reminder because sometimes I can get a little lost in the, you know, I'm I'm parenting and everything I do is around this parenting journey.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:39

Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 47:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Sometimes it is nice to just sit down and read a book or go to a crafter noon and Talk about the weather in various parts of the world. And color.

SPEAKER_01 47:52

It's so nice. I've been reading books this last year more and more. I've been an avid reader and have been always, but I realized I haven't been reading as much, not just fiction, but kind of like fluffy fiction. And so like in the last year and a half, I've been reading a lot more just in audiobooks, I do both. Um, just fluffy, silly, kind of like brain, I call it like brain candy fiction. It's so ridiculous, and I'm enjoying it so much.

SPEAKER_00 48:25

Yes. I, you know, I was talking about the burnout, and I I read five fluffy fiction books last week. Yep. Uh and by the fifth one, I was like, oh, and yes, I feel sort of like if I had eaten too much ice cream.

SPEAKER_02 48:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:46

And I'll move on to the next activity.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

I'll pick a I'll pick a less fluffy one next time. Not again, not because it was bad or critical or anything, but it's like I think there's something so beautiful about paying attention and like noticing. Like right now, I just want fluff and romance and something that could never happen in real life, but is also such a perfect trope. I know exactly what's gonna happen next in this ridiculous book.

SPEAKER_00 49:13

Yes. A hundred percent. And then when enough is enough, I'm like, oh, that's it, that's enough. And I feel satiated with that, and that did its job. Yes. And I can do another one in three or four weeks if I want to. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:30

Well, it has been just a wonderful delight to get to know you over all of these years. To think, I mean, yeah, five-ish years, and then to also have spent the year with you in the immersion program, and then of course, what continues on after, and to have that get added to our relationship, and then to watch you be, you know, go out and and offer to others. Um, because you're absolutely right. Like when people say, You've offered me so much, you know, one of my first thoughts is yeah, because so many people have offered to me. And it just felt like, of course, that's what I have to do. Like I so generously was given to that to continue to just offer it out there. So then to hear that get said from someone too, like that it's just yeah, it's it's really awesome.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Yeah. Well, Robin, I am just so grateful beyond what I could ever express in words for the work you do and what you've brought to me and to my family. It it it has changed my life. I really mean it, but it has changed my life.

SPEAKER_01 50:51

Well, thank you for offering that. And I'm receiving it and also just like I said, sitting in so much gratitude that that's even possible. Like when I think back to like Robin 20 years ago, this isn't what I imagined, you know, and I'm really it's pretty astounding.

SPEAKER_00 51:17

I feel the same. Not, you know, I can think back to a point in my life not even knowing that this could be possible for myself, yeah. And the amount of gratitude I feel being here now, it's immense.

unknown 51:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:38

And so much gratitude also for you and what you bring, well, what you've just offered to thousands of people by being willing to be on the podcast, but of course in the club. So thank you very much. Thank you, Robin.